Comics 4 Kids?
By Dollar Bin • May 14th, 2008 • Category: Shows
The Dollar Bin gang has once again noticed a disturbance in the comics force and felt that they are just the group of guys to call attention to it. What is this cause you ask? The lack of comics for kids and the lack of kids reading comics. Ok we can feel your look, but even though we may not be the first you’d think of to rant about this we’ve still got a lot to say about the subject plus what we read last week on this edition of the Dollar Bin.
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(Sorry, this is scattershot, I probably should wait for the show to be over and compose my thoughts instead of typing as you go)
I watched a father turn his kid down who expressed an interest in an 11 dollar digest of Sonic the Hedgehog. It broke my heart. I wish there had been a polite way to just offer to buy the fucking book for the kid and foster his interest in reading. Meanwhile, the father had a stack of this weeks comics which I guarantee you amounted to more than eleven bucks. Shame on him.
I think the burden is definitely on shop-owners to be accessible and inviting without coming off as creepy kid-touchers. But every child/parent combo that walks through the door need to be engaged and offered help if necessary. I’m lucky to have two shops in the area that very much have their eyes on the future of the industry. But I think more shops need to reach out to schools and other venues to try and organize events or hand out coupons and the like. First taste is free don’t you know.
However, I don’t think Comics were necessarily more for children when we were coming up:
I’m 32 and I started really reading comics ~1983. But some of my first comic collecting was Crisis on Infinite Earths where worlds died every issue with George Perez closeups of people screaming as they’re eaten by antimatter waves. One of my first actual Batbooks was Batman helplessly watching a little girl drown. Iron Man was my first comic and Tony was a drunk while Rhodey went insane. Teen Titans was one of the first books to drop the comics code and curse and get into incestuous relationships. I was 9 through 11 reading these, but I was okay. I glossed over parts I didn’t quite get, but that’s just it, kids will gloss over the parts they don’t quite get. The important part is one colorful guy beats up other colorful guys.
The real casualty of the past 20 years is getting away from the golden rule: “Every Issue Is Somebody’s First”. I think more emphasis needs to be put on making sure each issue is bookended even just a little. Yeah it’s always going to be a little forced, but I don’t necessarily mean a Claremontian intro where every character finds some way to announce their birth name, code name, power set and limitations through the course of a splash page. But just a quick catch-up, or reflection…. what’s my point? Oh yeah, that it’s not so much the content as the unforgiving arc-oriented storytelling which is pushing kids and new readers out.
Also, you touched on the need for more Cartoon exposure. The new Brave and the Bold looks great. I’d love for a new Superfriends cartoon to come out. JLU was pretty alright, my son loves it even as he glosses over the dirty government bits that are over his head. Similarly the new Wolverine adn the X-Men cartoon looks friggin’ thick, but way over little heads. X-Men evolution was much better.
Danny Phantom, Ben 10 are quite good and make a nice stepping stone to an ongoing but episodic continuity. Avatar the Last Airbender is the best show for all ages out there. Seriously, all of y’all need to catch that on DVD. Also, my 4yo loves the Mickey Mouse Clubhouse cartoon. It’s basically just Dora the Explorer with the Mouse and Co.
I used to hate the idea that Marvel and DC sequestered their all ages stuff to a separate line (which acts as more of a farm team for their reader). But I have since reversed my opinion on that, b/c it does help if parents can walk in and point to one wall, rack or area and know that everything in there is okay for kids. And quite frankly, that stuff is often better than the regular book. JLU has been a far-cry better than JLA.
MMC is kinda like DtE, but it seems more dumbed down (and by that I don’t mean for younger ages) and focused on pretty colors. I’m always hearing about Avatar. I’ve been avoiding it like I do Devin.
I’ve had things happen like your Sonic story before too. It is a strange position to be in and I suppose it is just best to mind ones business.
Richard (of Richard’s Comics and Collectables) is pretty good about having family friendly get the kids in the door events like Star Wars day and having balloon shaping guys (what the hell are they called) at the shop during FCBD.
I think a problem is also the fans (us). Shop owners need to appease the main audience and comics fans are stuck up no-it-alls who don’t want to deal with tripping over kids and have “stupid” questions asked to them. “Scoff, you didn’t know that? Why do you even bother? Scoff.”
Ok, where to begin…oh yeah, right.
I think we’d all agree that the newer mainstream comics aren’t for kids, however…the bronze age, and silver age stuff is absolutely great for kids.
So how do you get kickass bronze and silver age stuff into a kid’s hands? Easy bitches, give them a Marvel Essentials!
They’re like $14, cheaper if you scan eBay, and they’ve got like 10 issues in them. They’re black and white so if the kid wants to color it they can. So you just knocked out “entry to comics” and “coloring books that don’t suck ass” all in one shot.
You’re welcome.
The kid friendly comic line DC put out in the 90’s using the old Charleton characters was called Impact Comics. Black Hood, The Comet, The Fly, The Crusaders, etc…all under that umbrella. Not bad reading either…I’m actually about 2 or 3 issues away from a complete run of The Comet and Black Hood. Yes, I’m a loser…bite me.
One of the guys behind Ben 10 is Dwayne McDuffie, who was one of the driving forces behind DC’s “MIlestone” line. Static was one of the characters from that universe, of course you might be more familiar with him as “Static Shock” on the Kids WB. So the moral is “Dwayne McDuffie good”.
TOR!! Fucking Tor baby! Hell yes, Joe Kubert is incredible. Keep in mind when you’re reading Tor that Joe Kubert is like 80 years old and hasn’t lost a fucking step. There’s a reason why he runs a school to teach “guys who can draw” who to be bonafide Comic Artists. 50% of the current industry could use a good lesson from Joe Kubert. Expect Liefield, that guy’s fucking hopeless.
Ok, so onto the main crux of the discussion here…how to get kids into comics.
I think the parents, and the industry should be the driving forces here. For the industry it’s simply investing in their future. It’s that simple.
As parents, if you want your kids to read comics, then give them stuff to read or read it to them. Foster that love for the medium in them at home and then carefully guide them into the world.
The industry can help by doing more family friendly books, lowering the prices on trades, and basically just being open to the idea of allowing fans to do what fans do…turn new people on to the things they like. Of course in this case, it’ll be their kids.
Stores simply can’t carry the load on their shoulders if the books aren’t being bought.
Of course if the books aren’t being bought it should be a simple matter of ordering 2 or 3 copies a month and slowly building an inventory that way. Or perhaps buying them when they’re cheap, or using other dealers 50 cent bins as a basis for stocking their own childrens books.
Also, this show was so awesome I’m officially changing my religion.
Re: Cinlach: When we convert to Tre-tholicism, do have to tithe ten percent to Tre? If not, I’m down.
Getting kids into comics is easy, you bring them to comics shop, show them stuff they already have an interest in, repeat. Things like Free Comic Book Day help. My fiancé’s 8 year old daughter got almost as many comics on FCBD as I did. She also got an awesome free sketch of Supergirl from artist Kevin Mellon. (I’d scan it and post it, but she demanded we get a frame for as soon as we got it, so it’s hanging up on her wall.) I posted a little more in forums before this show was posted… http://forums.thedollarbin.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=78
The crux is finding a shop that isn’t immediately offensive to women and children. One of the local shops has a big area where they display back issues of Playboy, Penthouse and the like. It’s got a big sign that tells kids to stay out, but the sign is an old Wolverine standee with a hand made word balloon saying if i remember correctly, “18 and over only, Bub!” It just sort of invites kids into area. I’m tangenting… My point was that store that look like a dream to 18-35 year old, male geeks isn’t going to pull in Suzy Homemaker and her kids. Stores are usually either dank, moldy little shops in a dilapidated strip mall with poor lighting and proprietors and patrons that smell of (a) your grandma’s basement or (b) cheap booze and stripper glitter or they are sprawling museum-like caverns with rows of back issue boxes far too high for any young person to look into and proprietors and patrons that smell of (a) your grandma’s basement or (b) cheap booze and stripper glitter. (Those smells are pretty universal in the nerd community.)
I miss Devin!!!
Nice show.
Stop picking on Gamers assholes!
Matt rolls +6 to being pissed!
Hey guys, I listened to the converstaion with partial interest. I enjoyed the actual comics part…
As luck would have it Adam dropped by the store today. It was the perfect opportunity to show him the Kid’s section in the store. Granted it has been here since the begginning, but I really only think kids focus on it. The section is in the back of the store which does a couple of things for me. It allows them complete access to the books as they are on the bottom 2 shelves and it gets the parents to walk through the other items in the store. It is also a bit out of the way so that they do not get in anyones way, or vice versa..
Also one of the 5 spinner racks in the store is totally devoted to kids titles. I do indeed have Owly books in the store along with Archie, and Disney related titles. Also several other kids books are available. On the shelves are also coloring books, sticker books and even T-shirts for kids.
I am glad he had the opportunity to actually check out the section and see it in person.
As you noted in your conversation (the parts that applied) comics are not being written for kids today. Accessibliity is also a problem for kids today. They must rely on their Parents to bring them to the stores. There are also figures and other items that are being driven towards kids. I think it is up to the parents to help get thier kids involved in comics, as they were when they were kids. They just have to aware of the titles that are out their and which ones their kids can enjoy. They are the best judge of the individual kids reading level. I have an obligation to have books available for the kids to purchase and the parents to review. Also it helps make sure the atmosphere is safe and comfortable for all ages.
Events such as FCBD is designed specifically for new readers (kids and others) to be aware of the hobby. Even adults that used to read books as kids are sometimes surprised that comics are still out there. Mainly because they are not as accessible as they used to be. Of course all of the comic related movies help get kids interested. With the modern age kids seem to enjoy player computer related games than reading the books. Once again this is something the parents can help with, by encouraging their kids to read. The computer games are not bad and do teach lessons, like stragegy, but reading is still a fundamental skill that needs to be encouraged!
Anyways enough rambling. Anyone is welcome to drop by the store and check it out. Suggestions are always appreciated.
Thanks, Richard
P.S. Also as a note the particular books that Adam mentions that were unavailable in the store, have since been re stocked and provided to him. This is an issue that the subscription service tends to cure, if your form is kept updated…..
Adam drop by again and I will be happy to make sure the books you want are added to your list.
Eat your heart out, Tre.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/alaskadanielle/2374550720/
Okay, Richard is correct. He does have a Kid’s Section and Owly.
For proof check out:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dollarbin/sets/72157605098969775/
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, “I do not research before speaking.” Usually I don’t even think before speaking.
No problem Adam. I am glad that you dropped by to check things out.
You guys still do a good service by keeping folks focused on comics and the comic related events, even if you do tend to go off subject here and there…..
Good thing Brendan tries to keep you in line… 
I did want to expand a bit on the Kids topic to make sure of one point I mentioned. The person most responsible for encouraging their kids to read are the Parents! Whether it is comics or other reading material. Comics are a great stepping stone to wanting to read other things. Hopefully once they get started they will never out grow it.
Publishers need to creat appropriate books for kids, Distributors need to distribute the items. Retailers need to purchase/display the books in a friendly atmosphere. But, without the parents encouraging them to read, and specifically to read comics, it may a while longer to get them interested in comics.
Of course as they get older most likely they will have a friend that does read comics and that might be the platform used to get them interested in the hobby.
With all of the media attention, it is just a matter of time before they are aware of comics. As a retailer I see new people all of the time dropping by to get started or renewing a past interest in comics.
Anyways, thats it for this time.
Richard
Great episode guys. The problem is that we have been fighting to get comics seen as something other than for kids for the past 20 or so years so anything that even SMELLS of kid friendly has to be squashed. And since comics STILL haven’t been embraced by the adult population in general we ahve cut off the next generation of readers. Odd situation to be in………………….
“Odd situation to be in………………….”
True though.
What gives? No “children and comic” stories? I know some of you have kids! No one wants the Sonic. I’ll happily keep it for myself. I’m just saying. None? No one? I did get an emailed story. Being that he didn’t share with everyone I’m not sure if its fair that he wins, but he may if he’s the only one. We’re giving things away people!
My kids are three and one, respectively, man. Josh loves the cartoons, and we read him the new Superfriends and I let him play with my extra HeroClix.
But they’re too young to really have any stories to tell, man. I’m sorry.
Here’s something, my son’s first Superhero he could identify was, of course, Superman. His second? Hawkgirl. Now that’s my boy.
My kid’s only 7 weeks old and while he has an old Avengers mobile above his crib (seriously) he’s too young for stories. The closest I can come to a story would be 3 or 4 years ago I was in Orlando with my boss on business and we had a day leftover afterwards so we took his 6-year old grandchild Justice (spoiled brat that he was and still is) to Universal Studios Islands of Adventure. He kept talking about wanting to see Spider-man the whole time we were there, fortunately once or twice a day Universal Studios has a “parade” with the heroes and villians on ATV’s driving through the park and stopping and mingling with the people. During the parade he was jumping up and down and waving and calling for Spider-man to stop and shake hands. Unfortunately all this waving and yelling did not get Spider-man to look at him, but it did attract the attention of the Green Goblin who was standing right beside Spidey. The actor was really into his roll as the Green Goblin and scared Justice so bad the little bastard pissed his dark blue shorts. Free trip to Islands of Adventure and the little shit pissed himself? One of the best days of my life.
Hi guys!
I am happy to work in a comic shop that definitely places a lot of importance on all-ages comics, and on families as customers in general. We not only stock a lot of all-ages titles, we also have a lot of childrens’ books, and toys for kids. We sell a lot of Bone books to kids, and the new Super Friends comic has been a big seller since its release. We have customers adding it to their pull list so they can bring it home to their kids. For free comic book day, we divided 20,000 comics into all-ages, teen, and mature readers, and we had childrens’ entertainment (magician, balloon animals, cartoonists drawing for kids, people in costumes, etc). I think we have far more kids in the shop than most comic shops. My recommended shelf is usually mostly all-ages titles.
The only thing I disagreed with you guys about in this episode was your hatred of the JLA Special. I actually think that was the best thing I read that week! It was all re-prints, but so were all of the other Countdown/Final Crisis tie-ins (Jimmy Olsen, The Atom, etc). And this one had some really fun stories that I had never read before. Although it was weird that they only printed the first half of a two-part story in it (How did the JLA get their powers back?! I guess we’ll never know).
Grant Morrison says that Libra is a chracter who showed up in that one issue of JLA and always stuck with him. I’m willing to bet that Morrison just discovered him, like, a month ago when he was desperately searching through back issues for the most obscure villain he could find.
Bone. I can’t believe we didn’t talk about Bone. I even reminded myself to talk about Bone and then didn’t. That’s why we need to write things down. I mean for goodness sake my best buddy (in my own mind) Steve Hamaker colored Bone. Yes. Bone.
We all forgot about Bone. Dammit! And Runaways, although I guess that’s more of a “young teens” kind of book.
My step-daughter just got a “Cine-Manga” book put out by TokyoPop featuring Hannah Montana. I’d never heard of such of a thing, so I opened it up and took a look. They basically took an entire episode of Hannah Montana, grabbed screen-caps of moments through-out the show, and made them into panels on the page. Then they took the dialog (verbatim) and put it into word bubbles, added a few sound effects here and there and charged $7.99 for it. They’ve apparently done the same thing with a lot of their animated properties. While Disney may be pure evil spawned from the butthole of Satan himself, they know how to make money.
While this idea is brilliant, I think if Disney wants to do a comic version of some of their upper echelon, classic animated characters, they should get some name people to do them. Can you imagine a Mark Waid/George Perez “Incredibles” comic? Or a Neil Gaiman “Fantasia” or “Snow White” book? The impossible dream… “Darkwing Duck” by Darwyn Cooke. I’d pee myself.
Courtney Crumrin is the best children’s book that I know of. Actually all of Ted Naifeh’s stuff is pretty good all-ages fare.
Rachelle, I must disagree - Morrison has always been very well versed in obscure DCU history, even in his early work - It’s not an accident he wound up with Animal Man, for instance. I’m inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt on this one.
The Human Flame, on the other hand…
Ad for Ted Naifeh, he is excellent, but I’ve heard a lot of debate about just how young, say, Polly and the Pirates is appropriate for. Maybe good for age 11, not for age 7, and so on. When we talk about stuff for kids, it’s good to avoid lumping all pre-teens together…